A few years back I went on a retrieve for a glider competing in a 1-26
contest at Blairstown. The pilot set it down nicely in a field, contacted
the owner and he was cool about the whole thing. But somebody must have
dropped a dime, and a couple of young NJ State Police troopers showed up.
These were young guys, and I suppose they hadn't dealt with anything like
this before. They were adamant that we not move the glider until they had
checked with the ever-lovin' FAA. Even with the owner at hand, they
wouldn't let us move the glider to the edge of the field. We couldn't
move it or do anything to it at all. And they're the ones with the guns.
Finally they got some kind of magic message, and we could proceed, but
they definitely weren't happy campers.

So anyway. Some years back at a 1-26 Championships hosted by the Texas
Soaring Association, they had negotiated a nice letter written by the
local FAA office to the effect that a glider outlanding, as long as it
didn't involved substantial damage to the glider or to structures on the
ground, and no injuries were involved, is a non-event as far as the FAA is
concerned. Each pilot was given a copy of the letter to carry along in the
glider. Such a letter might have saved us a bunch of trouble. I've often
thought of trying to get the same sort of thing from the folks at Allentown
for our general use, but I've never mustered enough ambition to do it.

Jim Beckman

Jim,

You mentioned this was in NJ. Be aware that NJ has a law that
prohibits landing a plane other than at an airport. One of our club
members from Philadelphia Glider landed out in NJ, and the NJ State
Police showed up (in pairs, as usual). They were not friendly, going
so far as to try to get the land owner to press charges. Afterwards a
friend of mine talked to a NJ Medevac, who confirmed there was indeed
a problem landing off airport in NJ. Your best best next time is to
stretch the glide to PA - we're friendlier! <grin>

-John

On Aug 10, 4:30 pm, Jim Beckman > wrote:
> A few years back I went on a retrieve for a glider competing in a 1-26
> contest at Blairstown. The pilot set it down nicely in a field, contacted
> the owner and he was cool about the whole thing. But somebody must have
> dropped a dime, and a couple of young NJ State Police troopers showed up.
> These were young guys, and I suppose they hadn't dealt with anything like
> this before. They were adamant that we not move the glider until they had
> checked with the ever-lovin' FAA. Even with the owner at hand, they
> wouldn't let us move the glider to the edge of the field. We couldn't
> move it or do anything to it at all. And they're the ones with the guns.
> Finally they got some kind of magic message, and we could proceed, but
> they definitely weren't happy campers.
>
> So anyway. Some years back at a 1-26 Championships hosted by the Texas
> Soaring Association, they had negotiated a nice letter written by the
> local FAA office to the effect that a glider outlanding, as long as it
> didn't involved substantial damage to the glider or to structures on the
> ground, and no injuries were involved, is a non-event as far as the FAA is
> concerned. Each pilot was given a copy of the letter to carry along in the
> glider. Such a letter might have saved us a bunch of trouble. I've often
> thought of trying to get the same sort of thing from the folks at Allentown
> for our general use, but I've never mustered enough ambition to do it.
>
> Jim Beckman

On Aug 10, 1:30*pm, Jim Beckman > wrote:
> A few years back I went on a retrieve for a glider competing in a 1-26
> contest at Blairstown. *The pilot set it down nicely in a field, contacted
> the owner and he was cool about the whole thing. *But somebody must have
> dropped a dime, and a couple of young NJ State Police troopers showed up.
> These were young guys, and I suppose they hadn't dealt with anything like
> this before. *They were adamant that we not move the glider until they had
> checked with the ever-lovin' FAA. *Even with the owner at hand, they
> wouldn't let us move the glider to the edge of the field. *We couldn't
> move it or do anything to it at all. *And they're the ones with the guns.
> *Finally they got some kind of magic message, and we could proceed, but
> they definitely weren't happy campers.
>
> So anyway. *Some years back at a 1-26 Championships hosted by the Texas
> Soaring Association, they had negotiated a nice letter written by the
> local FAA office to the effect that a glider outlanding, as long as it
> didn't involved substantial damage to the glider or to structures on the
> ground, and no injuries were involved, is a non-event as far as the FAA is
> concerned. *Each pilot was given a copy of the letter to carry along in the
> glider. *Such a letter might have saved us a bunch of trouble. *I've often
> thought of trying to get the same sort of thing from the folks at Allentown
> for our general use, but I've never mustered enough ambition to do it.
>
> Jim Beckman

Maybe the SSA could produce such a letter from the FAA for all of us.
This could save a lot of headache.

Ramy

I too attended the 2009 Ordeal at Cordele as did Matt and Kirk, and I
too visited a big, flat, field out in the middle of Nowhere, Georgia.
The field turned out to be a very soft, just planted five days prior,
cotton field. Roll out was, ehem, short. I figured the field was a
good one because "AK" in his SZD-55 was already there.

As we were briefed in the contest pilots meeting, I called 911 and
first told them my call was a non-emergency and proceeded to give
details of the landout and my name and phone number. The 911 operator
was professional and kind. No problems. We were eventually visited
by a deputy sheriff and the land owner. The landowner wasn't too
happy about us damaging the crops (I don't know how much damage we
might have caused and I stepped over the rows of itsy bitsy cotton
plants any time I had to walk around. In the end, the farmer and his
two teenaged sons help me get the glider, (wing, wing, and then
fuselage) over to the trailer. The field was much too soft to bring a
trailer into it.

Last year, in another landout adventure, I landed on a former airport
that is now used as a training ground for the local community
college. They teach policemen, abulance drivers, and firemen to drive
through an obstacle course by setting up traffic cones on the runway.
I didn't see the cones until I was on a very short final. At least I
found an area on the runway free of cones and got in without
incident. I pushed the glider off of the runway to the parallel
taxiway and started looking for someone. Even though it was the
weekend, students were in class in the old FBO building. After a few
pleasantries, I was back at my glider waiting on the ground crew.
Soon, though, I was greeted by about five policemen and three or four
police cruisers. They were all quite pleasant and were happy I was
safe and hadn't landed out in the trees anywhere. However, their
dispatcher was quite upset at my actions and he was telling the
responding officers to arrest me. The officers on scene didn't see a
reason to make an arrest and was a bit peeved at their own dispatcher,
saying, "He (the dispatcher) thinks he's my boss, but he's NOT my
boss." Someone did call the FBO operator at the new airport that is
probably a 30 minute drive away and he obliged by coming over and
saying "hi."

Oh, and yet another landout, this one near New Castle, Virginia.
Turned out I landed in a field that was tended to by the County
Sheriff. Big Man and he carried a Big Gun in his holster and he was
not happy because, as he stated: "I've had gliders land in this field
(pointing one direction) and I've had gliders land in that field
(pointing in another direction), but I'VE NEVER HAD A GLIDER LAND IN
MY HAY FIELD!!!" Gulp. Then he continued with "But it is my
smoothest field" (Thank you very much, I smartly picked the smoothest
field to land in.) He finally calmed down and the glider was
retrieved without further ado.

I'm still hoping I can find some summer training camp for collegiate,
all girl, cheer leaders to land in. I'm sure the cell phone won't
work at all!

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Last year in Scotland I was flying solo in a Puchacz when I made my first
outlanding. That lovely cloud wasn't working after all and when I turned
around I had a thousand feet and hills between me and the airfield which
had somehow moved two miles away! I picked an uphill field and was
sitting in the cockpit sunbathing and congratulating myself on getting it
right when a police sergeant arrived on foot. His constable came shortly
afterwards by car and I was breathalised. It seemed to keep them happy so
I retaliated by getting them to help de-rig. Apparently the Fire and
Rescue Service turned up at the airfield to see if they were needed.
Since then I make sure I have the relevent numbers in my phone when flying
at strange airfields.

At 23:33 10 August 2009, rlovinggood wrote:
>I too attended the 2009 Ordeal at Cordele as did Matt and Kirk, and I
>too visited a big, flat, field out in the middle of Nowhere, Georgia.
>The field turned out to be a very soft, just planted five days prior,
>cotton field. Roll out was, ehem, short. I figured the field was a
>good one because "AK" in his SZD-55 was already there.
>
>As we were briefed in the contest pilots meeting, I called 911 and
>first told them my call was a non-emergency and proceeded to give
>details of the landout and my name and phone number. The 911 operator
>was professional and kind. No problems. We were eventually visited
>by a deputy sheriff and the land owner. The landowner wasn't too
>happy about us damaging the crops (I don't know how much damage we
>might have caused and I stepped over the rows of itsy bitsy cotton
>plants any time I had to walk around. In the end, the farmer and his
>two teenaged sons help me get the glider, (wing, wing, and then
>fuselage) over to the trailer. The field was much too soft to bring a
>trailer into it.
>
>Last year, in another landout adventure, I landed on a former airport
>that is now used as a training ground for the local community
>college. They teach policemen, abulance drivers, and firemen to drive
>through an obstacle course by setting up traffic cones on the runway.
>I didn't see the cones until I was on a very short final. At least I
>found an area on the runway free of cones and got in without
>incident. I pushed the glider off of the runway to the parallel
>taxiway and started looking for someone. Even though it was the
>weekend, students were in class in the old FBO building. After a few
>pleasantries, I was back at my glider waiting on the ground crew.
>Soon, though, I was greeted by about five policemen and three or four
>police cruisers. They were all quite pleasant and were happy I was
>safe and hadn't landed out in the trees anywhere. However, their
>dispatcher was quite upset at my actions and he was telling the
>responding officers to arrest me. The officers on scene didn't see a
>reason to make an arrest and was a bit peeved at their own dispatcher,
>saying, "He (the dispatcher) thinks he's my boss, but he's NOT my
>boss." Someone did call the FBO operator at the new airport that is
>probably a 30 minute drive away and he obliged by coming over and
>saying "hi."
>
>Oh, and yet another landout, this one near New Castle, Virginia.
>Turned out I landed in a field that was tended to by the County
>Sheriff. Big Man and he carried a Big Gun in his holster and he was
>not happy because, as he stated: "I've had gliders land in this field
>(pointing one direction) and I've had gliders land in that field
>(pointing in another direction), but I'VE NEVER HAD A GLIDER LAND IN
>MY HAY FIELD!!!" Gulp. Then he continued with "But it is my
>smoothest field" (Thank you very much, I smartly picked the smoothest
>field to land in.) He finally calmed down and the glider was
>retrieved without further ado.
>
>I'm still hoping I can find some summer training camp for collegiate,
>all girl, cheer leaders to land in. I'm sure the cell phone won't
>work at all!
>
>Ray Lovinggood
>Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>

On Aug 10, 2:51*pm, jcarlyle > wrote:
> Jim,
>
> You mentioned this was in NJ. Be aware that NJ has a law that
> prohibits landing a plane other than at an airport. One of our club
> members from Philadelphia Glider landed out in NJ, and the NJ State
> Police showed up (in pairs, as usual). They were not friendly, going
> so far as to try to get the land owner to press charges. Afterwards a
> friend of mine talked to a NJ Medevac, who confirmed there was indeed
> a problem landing off airport in NJ. Your best best next time is to
> stretch the glide to PA - we're friendlier! <grin>
>
> -John
>
IANAL, so I guess it depends how you, or those 'assisting' you, define
a land out in NJ according to the state statute.

6:2-6. Flight over lands permitted; liability for forced landing
Flight in aircraft over the lands and waters of this state is lawful,
unless at such a low altitude as to interfere with the then existing
use to which the land or water, or the space over the land or water,
is put by the owner, or unless so conducted as to be imminently
dangerous to persons or property lawfully on the land or the water
beneath. The landing of an aircraft on the lands or waters of another,
without his consent, is unlawful, except in the case of a forced
landing. For the damages caused by a forced landing, however, the
owner or lessee of the aircraft or the airman shall be liable as
provided in section 6:2-7 of this title.

At 20:51 10 August 2009, jcarlyle wrote:
>
>You mentioned this was in NJ. Be aware that NJ has a law that
>prohibits landing a plane other than at an airport. One of our club
>members from Philadelphia Glider landed out in NJ, and the NJ State
>Police showed up (in pairs, as usual). They were not friendly, going
>so far as to try to get the land owner to press charges.

The defense, of course, is that the Air Regs trump the state
laws. That's where a nice official-looking letter from the
FAA itself could come in handy. The troopers in this incident
didn't seem to have any knowledge of the law you mention.
They were trying to figure out whether it was a crash or not,
and, I guess, whether the NTSB needed to be brought in.

OTOH, the state law does prevent you from calling in a
tow plane for an aero-retrieve, unless the field in question
is a registered airport.

Then again, I can remember from quite a few years back
when somebody landed a light plane in some NJ field, I forget
what the problem was, got the problem fixed, and wanted
to fly the airplane out. It may have been off a country road.
Anyway, the remarkably cooperative local officials managed
to get the road declared a temporary airport for an hour
or so, closed it off, and let the guy fly out.

Jim Beckman

On Aug 11, 8:00*am, Jim Beckman > wrote:
> At 20:51 10 August 2009, jcarlyle wrote:
>
>
>
> >You mentioned this was in NJ. Be aware that NJ has a law that
> >prohibits landing a plane other than at an airport. One of our club
> >members from Philadelphia Glider landed out in NJ, and the NJ State
> >Police showed up (in pairs, as usual). They were not friendly, going
> >so far as to try to get the land owner to press charges.
>
> The defense, of course, is that the Air Regs trump the state
> laws. *That's where a nice official-looking letter from the
> FAA itself could come in handy. *The troopers in this incident
> didn't seem to have any knowledge of the law you mention.
> They were trying to figure out whether it was a crash or not,
> and, I guess, whether the NTSB needed to be brought in.
>
> OTOH, the state law does prevent you from calling in a
> tow plane for an aero-retrieve, unless the field in question
> is a registered airport.
>
> Then again, I can remember from quite a few years back
> when somebody landed a light plane in some NJ field, I forget
> what the problem was, got the problem fixed, and wanted
> to fly the airplane out. *It may have been off a country road.
> Anyway, the remarkably cooperative local officials managed
> to get the road declared a temporary airport for an hour
> or so, closed it off, and let the guy fly out.
>
> Jim Beckman

Looking over some of the other NJ aviation statutes, clearly the
question of licenses and fees for airports, airfields, and aircraft is
a primary consideration. It almost seems to trump safety.

Frank Whiteley

My intention in mentioning the NJ law was to point out that local
attitudes matter during outlandings. I've been fortunate enough not to
have any first responders show up after my outlandings. That may be
due to the remote areas I've landed or the state I landed in.

I'm not inclined to call 911 proactively - I'd let any responders do
that. I think there's too much of a chance you'll set something off if
you call. I won't say anything about why I'm there, other than I'd had
a aerial problem necessitating an emegency landing. I seek out the
landowner and I'm real, real nice to him, pointing out the care I've
taken to minimize damage to his crops. If they showed up I'd be
cooperative with any policemen. Whether that will count for anything
to help relieve tensions, I don't know, but since I'm an uninvited
guest I figure the best course is to be deferential and polite.

As a precaution, I do carry the title sheet of my insurance policy,
and I also have the AOPA legal advice phone number in my cell phone,
just in case things escalate. Don't know if I'd carry a letter from
the FAA stating things were a non-event in the case of no damage or
injuries - it might give the impression things had been planned.

-John